Recently I was interviewed by Tom H. C. Anderson of Anderson Analytics.  The following is the transcript and content from the interview:

Paul Kirch on Selling Market Research

Today I’m talking to Paul Kirch, whom I first met Paul at ESOMAR Congress in Montreal. He is the recent founder of ActusMR (a premiere sales strategy and consulting agency) and is the past president of NorthWest MRA. He has several years of experience in operations and sales management at firms like Common Knowledge/Toluna, M/A/R/C Research, Harris Interactive and Gallup, to name just a few. I thought I’d ask him a few questions about his new business and about how he views the MR sales process.

Tom: What made you decide to start this business now?

Paul: For me, it was really about timing and opportunity. I have been an aspiring entrepreneur for years, but was married to the security of a steady paycheck. Last year, however, a company I worked for was one of the many acquisitions our industry has seen. I was in charge of the sales group and with the new leadership continued to manage the US sales team. I started to think about the vulnerability you have as an employee in today’s corporate world. Though I had a job and the position was what I wanted, I just felt it was time to take control of my future and resigned. Acquisitions are hard, especially if you’re part of the team acquired. ActusMR, Inc. was inspired because I wanted to do something to help marketing research firms. I wanted to leverage my sales and sales leadership experience in a way which gave back. Today, I’m proud to say we’re helping our clients find success and opportunity. It is truly rewarding.

Tom: Thinking about selling in today’s market, what do companies have to do to succeed?

Paul: Today’s competitive environment requires a company to find a way to differentiate from their competition. If you’re selling the same service as the company down the street and your message doesn’t stand out as creating a greater value that matters to the buyer, how do you expect to win on anything other than price? Many firms in marketing research struggle to stand out. Think about gold, one of the most commoditized items in existence. South Africa minted a gold coin called the Kruggerand, which sells at a slight premium. If gold can be differentiated, then any company can if they take the right steps.

Tom: How has the sales process changed from just a few years ago?

Paul: Especially true in marketing research, many times a sales transaction took place between two business owners or senior executives. It was very relationship driven and there was a great sense of loyalty. Today, often we’re dealing with very junior or mid-level executives, or even procurement departments who are hoping to avoid the next round of lay-offs. Their buying motives are different and are very focused on making themselves look good internally. Self preservation often comes in 3 ways: 1. They get the lowest price to save the company money 2. They won’t switch vendors, fearing the new company may make a mistake (thus making them look bad) 3. They micromanage vendors to try to prevent problems, which often back fires

Tom: How do you win these buyers over if they’re so worried about trying a new supplier?

Paul: You have to gain their trust by proving that you create a value that matters to them. What matters to them? You can only find out through asking the right questions and learning about their business and business needs. What’s their biggest fear or pain point and how can you address it in a way others can’t? If you can answer that question and earn their trust, then you can win. Today’s most successful sales people are great at asking questions that uncover real needs. By doing research on the firm and the staff involved, they can anticipate the issues in advance and be prepared with answers that create real value.

Tom: You mentioned purchasing departments. Depending on the organization these can be really tough to deal with. We’ll often pass on RFP’s from Universities or other organizations that send out a one way 30 page statement about what they want with very little opportunity to ask questions or provide project design. What are your thoughts on situations like this?

Paul: When I first heard the phrase ‘procurement department’ in our industry, it caused me some great concern. It is a shift in how research is being purchased and sold. Anything which puts price as a leading factor above capability, weakens what our industry offers. I have written several articles arguing against commoditization in marketing research. We’re not selling commodities, though I think there are firms who have done a poor job of creating differentiation and value that matters, thus fostering the perception there’s little difference between the supplier’s offerings (especially in sampling and data collection). However, when we bring purchasing and procurement into the conversation, we create a scenario where commoditization might fit. Fortunately, very little buying has moved in this direction, but it is becoming more and more common. Like you, I’ve always avoided situations where I have no control beyond the content I put into the RFP. Uncovering real needs, as you stated, is so crucial to providing quality research and more importantly, VALUE as a partner. It’s the only way to do business right, in my opinion.

Tom: How do we motivate our sales staff? Are there any ways you’ve seen that are particularly good/not so good?

Paul: There’s a misconception that all sales people are motivated by money. I’ve heard people say that a sales person not motivated by money is not a good sales person. This is simply not true. As an example, two years ago, I managed a sales person who claimed he was in sales for the money. I revised his compensation plan to give him more opportunity to earn significantly more, but it made very little impact. What I discovered over time is that he did best when he was receiving praise and made to feel important. He went from being a lower to mid-level producer to being one of the top sales people in the company. Yes, he made more money, but it was the pats on the back and the sense of being important which really motivated him. Also, he thrived in an environment where he felt he was part of a team that valued him. Therefore, you need to know what makes your people tick and what will drive them the most. Here’s some other ideas that can work well:
1). Sales Contests – Structure them so that everyone has a chance to win and give cool prizes. Make it something they’d want, but might not buy for themselves (TVs, Flip Camera, trips, etc…) It can be an inexpensive way for a company to get maximum productivity. If you’re always motivating your top sales person, it can deflate the others, so make it fair, fun and competitive.
2.) Enhance Culture – Create a culture where you value the opinions of your sales staff and listen. Some of them have great ideas and a ton of experience.
3.) Embrace Success – Another area that works for motivation is to focus on a recent success during your weekly (or some other interval) sales meeting. Let them share what worked and why, and then as a leader make sure you recognize it as a win. For me, I often made sure others heard about the successes and gave credit to the people who made it happen, without discrediting those behind the scenes. After all, everyone deserves kudos when they’ve earned them.
4. ) Performance Based Compensation – For many sales people, it really does come down to money. Sales people should be putting a significant portion of their earnings at risk in the form of commission. In my opinion, the best plans have quarterly sales targets which are lofty, but not out of reach. Pay a certain percentage up to their target and then offer a bonus or an additional percentage for anything over their target. If they fall short one quarter, allow them to make it up on the next. Motivate them to always exceed their target.

Tom: What doesn’t work?

Paul: First, not treating your sales people as an important part of the team. Secondly, not learning what drives them to succeed (It’s not always money) and creating ways to leverage that. Thirdly, not giving them an opportunity to succeed financially. And finally, making their compensation plans too easy to earn. I see some people in our industry earning very large bases and barely covering their cost to the company with their sales. If you’re paying a large base, set targets which are appropriate and drive them to succeed, don’t drive them into complacency. If they aren’t performing, bring on someone who will. It sounds harsh, but true sales professionals know that there’s a risk for them if they don’t perform and they also expect a reward if they do. However, if you have someone falling short, take the time to help them find their path by trying to help them turn it around. Had I not done that in the case above, I might have missed out on a great success story.

Tom: What level of knowledge should sales staff have? It seems this can vary quite a bit from firm to firm.

Paul: What are the firm’s expectations from the sales person? Are they looking for someone who can be more of an order taker? Or someone who can service the client, but not necessarily be the aggressive hunter? Maybe an inside sales rep? Let’s assume you’re looking for someone who can really sell. Just like any career choice, knowledge is power. If you’re hiring sales people and you’re willing to invest in training and educating people you feel have great potential, then good for you. Often you can hire an inexperienced person at a reduced rate and salary, giving them an opportunity to learn and grow. Others are more comfortable seeking out sales people with a great resume and a ton of experience. Though this is often giving you someone who can produce faster and provide real growth, you have to know who you’re hiring. There are a lot of sales people that have a lot of experience, but they’re really not that effective. Did they work in an environment where leads came to them? Did they have to aggressively open doors and create relationships? What did their clients think of them? Were they someone who worked well with the operations team? This is a big question to have an answer, since market research firms and suppliers live and die by their operational offerings. I was fortunate enough to have worked in operations for 10 years before moving into sales, so I’m able to speak both languages and can relate to the frustrations of the programmer or project person who is stuck cleaning up a mess that someone in sales created by not caring enough to follow through. Experience does matter, but when hiring sales people, I think there’s far too little due diligence done during hiring. Far too often sales people or people hiring them believe that a seasoned sales person can bring a ton of business to them. In reality, buyers of research are often more loyal to the team that did the work and it doesn’t guarantee that they’ll shift their business. When a sales person is confident that a lot of their former clients will follow, it often falls short of expectation. Employers need realize this and align their expectations to avoid disappointment.

Tom: In winning new MR business, how important/effective do you think the various parts marketing are? Are cold calls effective? Are face to face meetings necessary? What about Advertising, conferences, whitepapers etc.? How should we allocate our time?

Paul: This a great question, Tom. First off, there’s a perception that sales and marketing clash. The simple reality is that their end goal (growth) is the same, but the path is different. Marketing is often referred to as “we-we” talk. “We do this, we do that…” Brochures and advertisements are filled with biased messages about what a company can do or will do. It’s important and it plays a very powerful support role to sales if used correctly, however it is very one sided. Good sales people know that selling is less talking about what they can do and more about uncovering what a client needs and then providing solutions that fit. It’s about asking questions and becoming a real investigator. Unfortunately, many sales people have not learned this lesson and spend more time talking about the promises in the brochure. Have you ever sat through a sales presentation where they spent an hour telling you everything they do and you walked away remembering almost nothing? It happens far too often. The key is to engage the clients by getting them talking. How? By asking powerful questions. There’s a phrase that is probably overused, but it’s “find a client’s pain points and then offer a way to ease that pain.” It really does come down to finding out what their frustrations are or what their real needs are. If you can offer a solution no one else can or if you can do it better or guarantee success, then you’re likely to win.

Cold calling ONLY is a very difficult way to make a living and it takes a special type of sales person to make 60-100 calls per day. Still, it is something that most sales people have to do to generate opportunities. Warm leads, on the other hand, are a much better tool to leverage. Conference attendees, visitors to your website, responders to requests, members of your social networking groups, referrals from a client or colleagues, and contacts you’ve met through networking are all great ways to have warm leads which dramatically increases your likelihood of success. Successful sales people often present at conferences, write articles, blog and are very involved in networking, since they know this is going to translate to money in the bank.

Advertising is an area near and dear to my heart. I studied to be a copywriter in college and actually interned for an advertising agency when I was 20. Advertising can work, but like your sales message, it needs to stand out and it needs to use some call to action. Give them a reason to respond… I avoid anything that reduces the value of research in the eyes of the buyer, such as weak discount offers. And, track your ads, by using a special number or code which allows you to follow which publication it was in.

Face to Face meetings are an incredible way to achieve great success. Living and dying by the phone alone is a hard way to grow a business. Though you have to be careful not to annoy your clients, getting in front of them allows you to build rapport and trust very quickly, assuming you’re bring a message filled with value. When you’re in front of a client, you can read reactions and gauge how you’re doing better than you can via telephone. Face to face meetings also show the clients they were important enough for you to hop on a plane to come see them, which goes a long way toward relationship building. When does face to face fail? When you’re unprepared or you spend more time just talking about what you do, instead of learning what they need. If you’re investing in a sales team, budget for travel and you’ll see a faster return on your investment.

Allocation of time depends on several factors. Personally, I like to see sales people travel at least two times per month. In most cases, 1-2 day trips work best, due to the prep work that must go into a face to face meeting. Also, unless it is a key opportunity, I never travel for just one meeting. Try and fill your day with 3 or 4 meetings in any given city to justify your time. When not traveling, part of your time should be spent scheduling meetings for the next trip, researching the clients you’ll visit and continuing to prospect and follow up with existing accounts. You should also expect to track a sales person’s metrics, such as calls dialed, meetings scheduled, proposals, and jobs won. Make it easy for them and for the company by implementing a great CRM solution, such as Salesforce.com. You can even tie compensation to using such a tool, guaranteeing it will get used.

Tom: Is there one type of ideal sales executive or are there different types that work equally well? Personally, what specific characteristics do you have that make you more successful than others? What is an area where you think you could improve?

Paul: There are so many different sales people out there. What I look for are people who are honest and trustworthy, are likeable, work well with others, are driven, understand research, have strong communication skills (written and verbal), think quickly and who want to grow and learn (they must be open-minded). Also, I think a sense of humor is important if used appropriately.

If I look at my own success, there are 7 areas which I think stand out as to why I achieved what I did: 1. I spent 10 years in various operations roles, which allows me to relate to the clients I talk to 2. Clients tend to trust me. I am often able to relate to their issues and offer viable solutions. They often recognize that I want to take care of them. 3. I always believe in what I’m selling. I would stand behind anything I’ve ever told a client and I think they knew I was sincere. 4. I had great mentors and always strive to become better. I still focus on improving every day, not just as a sales professional, but also as a person. 5. “Be a Resource” was a lesson I learned early on. Helping people find work, offering ideas to help individuals, introducing people who can benefit from each other truly striving to help are probably what have given me the most success and fulfillment. 6. Contributing to the industry, such as volunteering for industry organizations or mentoring students hoping for careers in research are things which helped give me recognition and helped me become known by some very influential people. 7. Taking ownership of mistakes. Mistakes happen, but how you deal with them can make the difference. I always try to resolve them quickly and make the client feel as if I am doing the right thing.

Where could I improve? That’s a hard question, since self improvement is a lifelong battle. Related to sales, I’d say the one area I struggle the most is reducing the noise or avoiding distraction. The world we live in today is all about instant and constant contact, we all feel we have to respond quickly to everything and we’re rarely able to turn it off. This sometimes gets in the way of a schedule full of prospecting or follow up with clients. To combat this, I avoid personal email during the day except for first thing in the morning, possibly at lunch and in the evening. I also try to block out time where I avoid non-crucial business emails. I might block out an hour to complete a task before responding to emails. It’s not a perfect system and I still fight the battle daily. I’ve always been praised as being responsive, but as the noise increases, it’s harder and harder to juggle everything we face. For me technology is truly a love/hate relationship.

Tom: Are there any sales techniques that you find rather successful, but that if we asked clients about they would disagree with and/or say they didn’t like?

Paul: First off, I don’t like sales tactics or techniques which aren’t natural or honest. And, if a client says they don’t like it, why are you using it if your hope is to build a relationship? I strive to do what’s right for my clients and prospects and I try to avoid being an annoyance. The reality is, however, when we make a sales call into someone who is juggling 12 items and we get them on the phone, we have a very short window of opportunity to succeed by winning them over. Be direct and to the point and also be prepared. You might just have a few seconds to find a way to connect with them. I try to focus on setting the next appointment and try to schedule a specific time, without being long winded. Ask most people and they say that don’t like to receive sales calls, but they do work if you are focused on respecting their time and their needs. Avoid tactics or techniques which aren’t natural or honest and sell with integrity.

Tom: The word ‘value’ is one you use a great deal. Why is that word so important when talking about sales and growth?

Paul: If you’ve uncovered your clients fears or problem areas and you can offer a real solution that others can’t (or don’t), then price becomes much less relevant. If you stand out as being different and better, you can often charge a premium. In other words, if your client perceives that there is a better value in working with you and your company, you’re moving away from commoditized selling. If you can’t differentiate yourself or your company, then aggressive pricing is often a necessity.

Tom: In your experience how does the value proposition usually differ by size of supplier company?

Paul: Size often relates to the number of resources. Many smaller firms are focused on their workload and on meeting payroll, so they take little time to create real value propositions or value statements. They know it is something they need to do, but it often gets little attention. When it does get attention, it’s done with little thought or direction as they need to move on to the next project. The successful larger organization has more staff and can focus teams on trying to create powerful campaigns and create value propositions which resonate. The campaigns give them more exposure which often translates to trust in the eyes of the buyer. The more we see a name, the more it resonates that they must be good or why else would they be so large and well known? In reality, often the smaller firms are doing some of the best work and they’re extremely focused on giving their clients an incredible service experience. They try to hire the best and brightest that they can afford, since they refuse to let their clients down. Larger firms need more bodies, so you’re often working with less experienced staff and the focus is often on the bottom line more than the level of service. The senior researchers and executives are often overseeing things, but they might be less hands on than they would be if they were in a smaller organization. There are so many ways to create more value and value propositions, regardless of size today. With social media and social networking, the size of the company matters very little. It still requires the right approach and work to get to create the right message, but the tools are there along with other channels to make an impact, thus evening the playing field. In the end, many smaller firms have a great story to tell. They just might need some help uncovering exactly what it is.

Tom: What can your firm do for clients?

Paul: Through our sales strategy group, we focus on helping create a stronger sales approach. We start with an evaluation process to uncover their real needs and create a customized plan. Two core areas revolve around identifying true differentiation and creating powerful sales messaging that complements their operational offerings. It’s important that they are armed with an approach that is actionable and usable. Usability stems from improving networking, presentation and investigative skills (researching and power questions). By asking good questions, you keep your client talking and engaged. When they are engaged, they retain what they hear about you, which rarely happens when you’re doing all of the talking. For example, a client I have been working with recently had a sales meeting with a Fortune 500 prospect. When I asked him how the meeting went, he stated, “I think I’m going to get the project, but I feel funny about the meeting. I asked a lot of questions, but I didn’t tell him much about my firm.” In reality, his new client learned everything he needed and he didn’t have to suffer a sales pitch. Engage and win…

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